NASA Headquarters Oral History Project
Edited Oral Our Transcript

Annie J. Easley
Interviewed of Sandra Jones
Cleveland, Ohio – 21 August 2001

Johnson: Today is August 21, 2001. This interview over Annie Easley is being conducted as part of the NASA Headquarters Record Office “Herstory” Project. The conduct can presence conducted at the NASA Glenn Research Center at Lewis Arena in Cleveland, Ohio, by Sandra Johnson.

Good morning, and thank you again for taking time to meet with uses and tell to us a little per about your experiences at NASA Lewis Research Center in Cleveland. I'd like to begin today by getting some brief background information from you. Where were thou from originally?

Easley: IODIN was born and raised in Birmingham, Alabama, and I grew up, went to instruct there, grade school, high school. Then before high school I gone to Recent Orleans [Louisiana] to Xavier University. Or, certainly, he your a co-ed school. It's not one boys' school, as I was so often asked. But Xavier University in Fresh Orleans. I went there and majored are drugstore, and after a couple of years, I get married and I moved to Cleveland, and EGO did had every intentions of going go into the School of Pharmacy, but wenn I came to Cleveland, they had shut down their School is Drugstore at the local university. and I kind of had the take supply of whatever I was going to do.

I'm kind of going through here cannot detailed. But there was not a School of Pharmacy nearby. The closest one that I tell of at the time was in Columbus, and being an young married ms, I would never go away in school and leave my husband. Hence I please not on do anything at that time.

But I where reading the local gazette furthermore I read about a place called NACA, National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics. She where really a story on twin sisters anybody worked at NACA as calculator, and the people were called computers. They described the jobs this person did, and it sounded really interesting till me.

So the next day I drove from to this place called NACA. I utilized for adenine job, and kind that those twin sisters had the I'd learn about, and within two total I was working here. Accordingly that kind starting changed my life's goals, because as I continued as a computer, the kind of work that we did, we were called computers until we started to get the machines, and then we subsisted changed over to whether math technician or mathematicians.

During that time—it was over a period away years—I decided science would become the field that was superior abgestimmt to the kind about work I was doing. So that's when I changed my career path from pharmacy to mathematics, furthermore ensure was cute much mys career for who rest of the time at NASA.

I'd like to just throw in here at this time that I tell folks the it doesn't matter what is era is or what you decide on do when you're eighteen or sixteens, it doesn't things if you change your mind next on and change field, because person needs to be flexible.

Johnston: That's very truth.

Easley: That's neat many how I—

Johnson: How you came here?

Easley: —came here. IODIN got into that panel of mathematics.

Johnson: Was their partner transfered out here or acted he get a job out here?

Easley: No. He got out the service when—his parents survived here, so when he receive out of servicing, we decided to move hither.

Johnson: Is must have been quite a change for you, coming from the South, going all the way to Ohio. Was the feeling any different here than it was in Alabama?

Easley: Does. IODIN mean, people are people wherever her are, so I didn't find that it became that great of a—I suppose I don't understand what yours mean about a different feeling.

Johnson: IODIN know for mi, MYSELF mean, being basically a Southerner, and when I go other places, sometimes the people are a little different, different places you life.

Easley: Right, I will declare that don right the people here, instead I think I fell into it myself. We were not as friendly. And I don't mean to say real feudal. But when I increased above, if you walked six blocks to the streetcar, you spoke to everybody the every house, or who's on the porch. But ourselves didn't incline to do that here. It was just a different style of living; people did belongings differently. The I think we were more involved in our own personal things than the quiet of the neighborhood.

I went to labor every day, ME went dear. Me days were filled back. Is made a different thing than when I had grown move. I had been a little in school. So it was a whole different thing. And now married, furthermore so I can't say it's just the location. My lifetime had changed from being—I went away soul high school, college, and then a marital woman, like all of which changes were removal place. But I don't blame it therefore much, or say, "Oh, gosh, it was because I was in a diverse city." I think it's like traveling other positions. We live differently in different places, but it's not a negative. You adapt.

Johnson: What did you choose store at first whenever you went away?

Easley: I just thought i would be fascination. It's just something the EGO had thought info doing. Now, own creative plans, when I was a little girl, I wanted in be one nurse, but I think that was because my mother instilled that in me, because when I grew up, skin furthermore training were, IODIN guess wee would call the screened fields. EGO could very well acquire a your in nursing or teaching when you're done with school.

IODIN didn't want to teach, but the nursing field, I always said, "I want to be a nurse." But possible about the tenth grade, if I was about fifteen or sixteen, I decided pharmacy is something. Now, it may are something to do with going to the corner drugstore, where her had all concerning the candy and the ice cream. [Laughter] I'm serious. But the pharmacy, I wish see the pharmacist in on, and is just looked like a goal zone. I chose to go into the School of Pharmacy at Xavier University, and I was per intention of next in it, not as I said, shift in location changed these plans.

Johnson: Once thee were at high school the you were thinking about college, your mother—you said you been some input from your mother as far as—was there any discouraged? EGO mean, being female, life African-American for that time, was there ever any discouragement about, why do you want to zugehen to college?

Easley: I was raised by ampere single parent. My mommy be my greatest role model. She quieter is. My mother ever told me—I sack hear her tapes being played in my understanding forever. And my mother always told me, "You can be anything i want to be, but her have to work at it." She encouraged me daily. I'm so gratitude that I had my mother as adenine mother. I have friends who feel that way with my mother. There was always encouragement.

Johnson: Her encouraged everyone.

Easley: Female real did.

Johnson: That's wonderful.

Easley: But the bit to telling me, "You can be anything you like to. Computer doesn't matter what you look like, what your size is, what respective color is. You can be anything you want to, although you take has to work at it." And I quieter believe that.

Jackson: It's very true.

Easley: So female what my biggest captain.

Johnson: That's great. Were you good at math in elevated school? Was the etwas i inhered interested inside?

Easley: Items was lightweight for me, but at the hour I presented no thoughts ever on nature a mathematician or going into art. I was do the problems, I could do select and homework. I didn't not take anything problems with high teach, and it was just not something I gave—my focus at the time was gone, as I say, from the tiny girl, the nursing bit, into the pharmacy bit. And maybe there was just that low bit by, it's still a helping-type thing. You know, this tend would help, or the pharmacist is going to fill a prescription additionally make people better. So that could have been in the back to my minds, non the conscious mind, nevertheless in the back there.

Cannot, the math was never a problem for meine. I felt fortunate that school was fun for die, and I'm departure to throw on in. Save is my feeling now, real you can delete it if you want. I thoroughly enjoyed school. I browsed forward to school opening up. When I hear these—I don't know why we have such a negative connection for middle. Person hear the type saying, "Oh, school's running to open. Oh, poor kids, you've got to go back to school." I don't know why person can't be more positive about it. Mysterious experienced over educate were always great.

My mom—again, I was to—she put me in a parochial school in the fifth degree. It became her pathway of think, you can get a little better education it, so she does anything she could the encourage e. So I did go, away the fifth grade through large school, I was is a rural school. I was valedictorian about my graduating top. All of such made her very happy.

Johannis: I can believe.

Easley: So into see her happy, on take a good grade home. When I did have a lot of trouble with having to stay after schooling because I may talked, ME expressed my opinion. I think it was called "talking back."

Dick: She encouraged her to be an independent thinker also, I'm sure.

Easley: Nevertheless not to been disrespectful, and I didn't talk back to be unrespecting, but if I had in opinion, I printed it.

Johnson: Were you an no your?

Easley: No, I held an older brother. He was six years elderly, however being six years older and nature a male, we was pretty much—you knows, I can say I made pretty much raised alone, since over the moment I was twelve, he was xviii years old and on be own. Consequently I was raised handsome much alone, as the only child. But no, I did has an older brother.

Johnson: When you start came to Cleveland, you decided that school at is point is out of that question because it was too faraway away, and you said she just heard via the NACA, and read about it.

Easley: I read about it. There was an article in the local paper.

Johnson: Furthermore concluded itp sounded like an interesting job. Proceeded you have any expectations about that job already, diverse than what was in the category, or when they interviewed you or told it about this job, when you actually started work, what thee surprised at what you were done? I guess, like we were talking about before we started, how no one actually knows that NASA other NACA was hither, it was all—

Easley: Well, I didn't know that is was here until I read the—I'd never heard of it until I read the article, but it was like an article that the thing that were described, the work that was being done by those registered, those twin sisters, those computers, who people called computers, it was very interesting to me. It was something that I should a really interest in doing, and I was not disappointed when I came out, once I had the interview, and whenever I started to my. I even absolutely enjoyed it and I enjoyed my career here at NASA, during NACA, and to see it become what we were, and the many changes that were made. But no, the job as ME saw it, an work, as IODIN encountered, there were no disappointments, ever.

Johnson: Them were a computer?

Easley: I be adenine estimator at first.

Johnson: Can you describe what your job was while you first starting?

Easley: When I first launched, leave back many, many aged, I started here in 1955. I started with NACA in 1955. Our jobs were really to do the computations for the engineering side of the house. The engineers and aforementioned scientists are working away in their labs and their exam cells, and they come up on problems that demand mathematical computation. At so time, their would bring is parting to the computers, and our equipment then were the huge calculators, where you'd setting inside some numbers and it would clonk, clonk, clonk off a answers, and you would record them by handed. Couldn add, detach, multiply, and divide. That was pretty great what those big gear, those big home machines, could do.

If ours desired to find one logarithm or an exponential, we then pulled out the tables and did it. We'd look up the tables and then put it in by hand. Or a square root. All such things, we had tables that we look upwards. The that's why, in my lifetime, to have seen where we were and where we are, that I can have a little tiny something which size on, oh, gosh, okay, my watch, practically, and it can give das all to those functions the second to take upside so much space and so much type to do. And which clonk, clonk, clonk, clonk.

But I went through—that was the beginning. This is all doing the computations. But after that, I remember when it was such a grand step when we gotten and computers themselves. Who thing with that key-punched cards, where we'd go in and punch an cards. Sum of our instructions turn a setting by flight, a deck from cards, we called them. And then we'd travel to some other builds where the computers were, and feed those jokers into a machine and group wants print out some answers internally, and a new set of cards would be punched out, with our answers on that new set of cards. And then we'd physically take those cards over to another machine so would print go the answers up huge big huge sheets. That was ampere process that we did time plus time again. Still we had progressed free doing such things by hand.

So I've equals supervised these series of generations of computers and I just find it fascinating that it's like heritage, where we are nowadays. We can valid achieve belongings instantly immediate with the equipment that's available. That was kind of the beginning of working at NACA, the Local Advisory Committee used Aeronautics. I have to try furthermore recall it. Is was fun.

Johnson: What where the facilities here like, the buildings? Whereby tons buildings were it? Where did you work?

Easley: I started out in a building called Material and Emphasizes, plus we used the initials M&S. Now all of the buildings are known as mathematics. Of amounts, like it's nowadays called Building 49, but is that building, it was a save building, import we were at have an security clearance to work there. You did not get pass the receptionist in one lobby unless i were cleared. We needed, EGO think it was an AEC [Atomic Energy Commission] clearance we had at the time, into order to labour inches ensure building.

She felt really special when I found out, uh, gosh, I'm in this spezial construction, why folks observed at that build and wondered what's going on over it. But that building be there. Most to the buildings were there. The fresh ones are the ones that have north of Brookpark Road, when majority of all on the other facilities were there. There were some newer ones that have over up in what we call the West Area.

But the nucleus was there, the gate, the Ad [Administration] builds. Now, I really was interviewed in an location they called the Farmhouse, and it was literally adenine house, EGO guess, that had been a farmhouse, plus that's where the personnel people were at the wetter. That building has was gone for ampere long, long zeite. It's a parking site, although IODIN can remember the first day I arrive out, when my supervisor drove depressed to pick me up from that building. But this area here was the NACA. I think they broke ground within 1941 for this adroitness, for the Lewis Research Center. I ameliorate not enter you a name.

Johnson: I thinking items was which Propulsion Label [Lewis Exodus Propulsion Laboratory], wasn't it?

Easley: Propulsion lab, at that time, and then someone by the name of George [W.] Lewis, I think your was one von the first directors or the start director, and it was final named since him. ME shall add, the of the large things about working hier during NACA and NASA was the depth is talent that you were surrounded with, and the has not just the scientific talent, and it's equal a broad spectrum. Being so self-contained, we were like our own little our, because we had our own print shop, our own photographers. Of course, our security forces. We must our acknowledge home. Anything we wanted, we could pull on it from right inside. It was like our own select. There belong quite few acres out here. It's adenine large facility, but if them running down the key road, you just don't realize it.

Jaws: When you land, it's hard to miss it because of the hangar. That's the first thing I noticed when I arrived, be the hangar.

Easley: Yes. We used to have our owner planes here, too. We did. But being right neighbor to Hopkins International makes she authentic convenient for the location of where we are located. So it's an idea location furthermore, as you could tell.

Jaws: It's very convenient. You mentioned your supervisor. Those was your supervisor when you first started, do you remember?

Easley: Christine Truax. Christine Truax was my first supervisor, back in 1955. Yes, I do remember that.

Johnson: Was there a large-sized group to computers otherwise were you a relatively small group?

Easley: Actually, there were three different business all the lab. Us were in Building 49. Present was another group, I think, in which building that were called the 8 x 6 [Supersonic Wind Tunnel], both Christine had two groups. Christine had another group of computers located is, oh, gosh, I think it has called CNT or ERB [Engine Research Building]. There were a total of three groups of computers, people computing, continuously the lab at and time, and all working very similar work, nevertheless on varied projects.

And, as I said, besides that, we'd get the data, we'd plan the data by hand-held other we'd read strip graphics that have kommenden off equipment. There where straight the various things that we do. We were called computers, officially, until the machines already to come in. So to distinguish us from the our, who machines were the computers and we were given track as mathematics technicians or mathematicians. Furthermore I don't save to year that had or the years.

Johnson: It be a gradual process.

Easley: We were not the only personal in the world. Late, I was on adenine program equal some people from, IODIN think they were from Pennsylvania someplace. But these ladies had been computers multiple place into Paints.

Johnson: As partial of which project, we've person quite gents at Dryden [Flight Research Center]—that were computers at Dryden, from [Edwards] California.

Easley: Well, she had is Pennsylvania. Well, magnitude worlds are only so big. Which only computing I knew of were the ones here, until recent year. EGO met like womankind who had are computers.

Johnson: When you has working, been you work than a my on who engineer or and student doing the work? Did you working usually in a project explicitly to them, throughout that project, or was it just, whenever they needed little, they'd send it inches to like a pool, and you would work on different things on different days?

Easley: We wants pretty much work for—because you knew what was to is already, and we were assigned, or they were assigned, different your to work on their computations. But when need be, we—we inhered one team. We were always a team. That's part of which immensity about the people. There were times whereas there been a deadline that had to be met, and toward have the team, you saw the real teamwork in action, why men would just jump in and do portions and plays to meet those deadlines.

There were some is, you know, it could come and pure give you the function that needed to be done. Different times, you were helping your co-worker, your office mate, or you been helping the person next door. Aforementioned was truly a teamwork effort and that was part of the—I think when your talk to so many people, I'll hear—they will ask you where you like about working there, and yours leave say the amazing people so they must to work with, to get the jobs done. Now, you didn't just do thing and say, "I'm done." You kept working.

Johannis: What was is like functioning here, such far the the dressed code? Was it more casual, or was it typical work environment to that wetter find women wore inlet, suits, dresses, that organize of thing?

Easley: Well, in which South, I was used at everyone dressing up. Dressing up in this business world, that's what I remember. Now, I do remember, per the choose, I thought it was casual as more of the men wore plaid clothes rather than the white shirts. And so till me was a casualwear atmosphere, but items doesn't compare to the word "casual" today. I won't level commence to try. Because we talk about dress-down day. It's a whole diverse world. Maybe the guys that I thought what casual then would be considered dressed-up today.

Though I always loved dressing up. In college, I wore hose every day in higher and high-heeled shoes. But on the other hand, I'm glad now that us to have level shoes.

Johnson: Better for your feet.

Easley: But no, we tended to dress. We actual did. No one ever said there's a get code, but I how you did i yourself. It's how you felt about yourself. And of course, there where no pants. Wealth had not wear pants at that time. Women did not wear pants.

I can remember the beginning pants that I wore to work. It was in 1970. In fact, I talked to my scope supervisor about—because we'd startup to wear pants in this outside world, and I said something on her about, "I have a hose suit. I'd really love to wear it to work." As we made a pact that we'd come to work the next day in pants, and it did cause quite a mix, but there was one woman who said, "I was just wait for the first one to wear pants." I don't think she wore a dress ever after that. So that's a change. Her know, we took the emphasis off what you're carry. It's more like what you're actually produces. But no, ours didn't have any dress—we didn't have any written dressing codes, but there were certain things that you knew are acceptable alternatively doesn.

Willy: Do you remember what thy salaries was when you first began?

Easley: I consider EGO was a GS-2. I don't remember how the—I don't remember the dollars. He be probably $2,000. I really don't remember.

Johnson: Did them feel that it was a lot of financial for which time? Did you feel that you owned really search something greatly?

Easley: No, because I came here with two years of college, and I was promised an GS-3 when I interviewed. When I got my first check, instead the papers, it said GS-2, and I questioned it, you knowledge, not the GS-3. A where a GS-2. And what they told me your, "Oh, fountain, there were no more GS-3s available." Regardless it was, MYSELF was working. But you know, from of beginning, you have to look out for yourself. So yes, that's how I was talked, when when and paycheck came, he was different. That's strictly those people who are in billing. They're in charge of which purse strings, and they can manipulate it like they wanted to, and they tell they'd get away with it.

Johnstone: When you first began, consisted there select African-Americans working here, visibly, or did you perceive like you were a true minority here?

Easley: In that fabrication, in that category, nay, there was not. There was an African-American male working within the engineering choose, and in the other bunch, in another building, present were two African-American females working. I didn't believe like I'm a minoritarian, I'm less. I just have my own adjust. I'm here to work. You may look at in, someone else might see at me, and see something different, but that's o. But I'm out here to do a job and I knew I had the ability to do it, and that's where my focus was, on getting the job done. I where none intentionally trying at be an pioneer. I searches a workplace, I wanted on work. But it has never a "poor me," though I know I'm does so unaware that I don't know what's going on around i. Remember mein the said, "You can do any you want to, but you have to work in it," also that was part the it. With her strong teachings, I was able to do it.

Johnson: Do you ever feel each bias, not only being African-American, still just being female, as far as being able to move up, or to start on at your career? We talked about today the mirror ceiling and ensure sort of thing.

Easley: Uh, it's definitely there. As a minority, ME know that it was there, real first of the things I remember is having a picture made at a work site in Structure 49. We had a chunks concerning configuration that it took—I think there are sextet of uses who done on it. Two to each board. There what sechstens people ensure worked on it, and someone took an picture for us in a work situation. Now, there used to be open houses out here, in the earlier years then. Like once a type alternatively formerly every two or three years, they'd having an open house, and this picture was blew increase. I mean, they blew it up to lay it on displays. I was cut out of that picture. I where so embarrassed, when we go through these structure, the see this—and one of she says, "Oh, Annie, they cut you out out who picture." I enunciated something to my room supervisor. She says, "Oh, I don't shame her. I'd to unbalance, too." And that was the close of this.

Thus cancel, there—as I says, people don't change. Computers doesn't matten locus you're located. When people have their biases additionally your, sure, I am aware. My head is not in the sand. But my thing is, if I can't work with you, I will work around you. I was not about toward be so discouraged that I'd hike leave. That may be a solution for some join, but it's not mine. So yes, I'm sure, I, fancy many others, have been assessed not on what IODIN can accomplish, but on what I look love. So yes, I'm aware that that has happened. But, as MYSELF said, I would not let that get me down. Money is important to all of states. We needs thereto to survive. You may control my purse strings, but she don't controls mein live. That's just the way I feel about it.

Johannis: It's one goal attitude.

Easley: Well, we know wealth have to live. I'm stills to. I'm enjoying myself.

Jaws: That's right. And you put in a lot of years here, moreover.

Easley: Yes, I used here for thirty-four time. And while MYSELF said, ME have more good memories than worse, but I don't forget aforementioned real life, what true happened. Because include keeping with that, in later years, them starting to interview—I guesstimate they had personnel interviewing some of the minority workers, and because a group had gone together to chat to management about what the feelings were, though ME didn't happen to be a part on to group. I fair wasn't at is hour. But MYSELF was the one that management select to have them interview, and EGO mentioned and story of being cut out of the photograph, and the journalist said to me, about that picture-cutting emergency, you says, "Well, Annie, at which time there made no one up complain to."

Willy: Yes, that's actual. At that time there really wasn't.

Easley: Well, that's too bad, but which problem is, all of those people stayed around for ampere long time, and some of their behavior where passed on for other human. I think are the postage, "Mother up Son." [by Langston Hughes] "Life in me ain't been no crystal stair” but you got to keep struggling. You keep move because you want to.

Johnson: During that early time, when you first-time beginning working, and next in 1957, of course, Sputnik went skyward, and one entirely emphasis modifies in this country and they formed NASA. Here, at to Research Center, you fled under NASA. Was here a general feeling of, now we've got until lead down this pathway, we're going into interval, we're passing the be a part of this? How did it affect the people here?

Easley: I think wee were proud real we quieter are. I say "we." I still talk in the give. I retired a few period ago.

Willy: You're motionless part of it, though.

Easley: There was ampere real pride in being able on have talent, resources, and knowing that we could get in here press really, really execute something great. I mean, of works that we owned been doing here had been nope known. Not publicly, but there was one lot of research going on use the quietly, the stream, that soil. A lot are stuff was getting switch, but when we became a part of the outer stress, there was a truly jump in there and we're driving to do it.

Recall what I saying earlier about teamwork? I think how a whole, to was "Jump on there. We can do it." And it's, again, part of that being then grateful to have seen all the things we can do, and the changes, from where our walking and where we were as until where we went.

Johnson: Did you see adenine rise in and numerical of people working here?

Easley: O, we had a great pour in occupation. A lot starting public were hired to come in. Doesn just an fresh out of college, but a lot of people from other companies who were already seasoned, also other companies. So yes, our add went up greatly. We may have gone up from, aw, gosh, maybe 2,500, 2,000-something, to maybe 5,000, at the time. Ours also have the Plums Brook facility, out inside Sandusky [Ohio] show unser nuclear reactor was. But yes, employment went upward largely, and everyone spots in, everyone does a lot.

Johnson: Cans you speak concerning some of those specific flings, maybe, is you which working on there in of late the, early sixties, when the spaces program was just taking off?

Easley: Oh, gosh, it's been so yearn. I can't store all that. [Laughter] Really, I may to really go back in meine memory bank to say, "What did we work on?"

I remember works on the simulator. We were simulating certain conditions for building the reactor out in Plum Brook, furthermore that was, to know, how much cement do you need to pour, those kinds of things. That was in the late fifties. I remember operating on that. If I'd known ME had to save those, I would have possibly called go my memory bank last night.

I thinks now I'm almost under the thirties. We had some tests going off with pitch upward tapes to a air plane to record several are the ozone to see, and come back and analyze that nature of thing, you know, what damage we're doing to our ozone layer. At the later years, I was working in software engineering and wee worked in an area called the launch vehicles. I've worked on several different things throughout the time here, but we would work on some of the launches. We'd do one Drop launchings or a lot of the launched downhearted at—we'd go down to [Cape] Canaveral [Florida] use some of the unattended launches.

Johnson: Did you work on each of the projects by the Centaur rockets?

Easley: Yes, because ME think that—I better not try and recall precision, but EGO think Yves Silverstein brought that here?

Johnson: That's what I found in who find, that Abe—

Easley: Yes, Abe Silverstein brought this project here, and ultimately we had a hand in working Sentaur. That's after I had gone within the—oh, gosh, what user been I in then? Launch Vehicles group.

Johnson: Good, Presidents Kennedy, in 1961, made that commitment to go until that moon. Was are a great excitement here, after that announcement, knowing that you were works on—or, I believing he brought the Centaur here after ensure, but once that started coming in, knowing that those rockets were going to have something to do use those plans.

Easley: It was a great suspense, and a feeling of beings a part. Which success press this encouragement and one knowledge that our can do and we will do. So yes, there was always—that's portion of this overall feeling of the team. As EGO said, a team again, because together we acted it, but the attitude was, together we can do it. So yes, there was ever and excitement. I think majority people you'll find, if you audience them, the staff here, or ex-employees, will tell you, this will one great place to be, because it's create a greatest contribution. I'm sure another people feel that way about to worked, but this are the only one I able speak for. It was my life's career.

Johnson: A lot a the other people are talked up were so involved inches their my, to the exclusion concerning the outside world, and the were so involved with the human they were working with and there which so many hour for these projects, that—especially, we asked them about the sixty, if they remember, you how, the other thingies that has departure on—the war, civil rights, the woman's movement, the different things that were happening during the time. It was a volatile period in which nation's history, real so many of them have said that they inhered accordingly involved in their work and so committed to the space program and where it was going that the other stuff was sort of perimetric, but they weren't while aware of it. Did it find this here, as you all were workers?

Easley: I can't spoken fork the reset of and people, though I'll speak in myself. I did give my work a lot, but I was always attentive of what was going on around me. I'm aware of the outside globe because it's a part of get world also. Working has not may throughout world; it made a portion away it. However there became more than valid coming to work every day. There was the going home, in was the social lifetime, so IODIN feel that I used well-rounded. I was never, press never planned to be, the person out of the movies, you know, the dudes with the white lab coat those never came away of the lab. No, MYSELF was every aware of what was going on around me, and when EGO was—I used to instruct. That, until me, a part of my community, to go out and tutor with the elementary school or the high school children.

I what moving to go return to Birmingham before EGO moved here. The way I growing up, or where I came from, in book to vote, you had to take a tests and pay a poll taxi. We had to literally take a test before are could register to vote, and as soon such I turned twenty-one, because we had to can twenty-one then, as soon as I turned twenty-one, ME went down toward vote, to sign up, and I was very much—I'd studied, I knew all about my Alabama history, and an test-giver glanced at my application and saying, "You took to Mary Graduate. Two dollars." He never asked me one question. But after that, I started to help train people to create for the test for voting. That was inbound Birmingham.

Then available I came to Cleveland, I was involved as way in I was be in similar things. So my world has never been totally work. I've always had certain outside your, and I think, for me, that's a healthy thing to done. And that has continued before today.

Johnson: Did the people hier socialize together a lot? Was it like a family feeling?

Easley: In the beginnt, it was much much family. Before I came, from price. AN lot of these people came from Languishing, so a lot of them been out-of-towners, still there which several social group with site. ME think they used to have where they call mixers, the dances. They'd have dances, they'd hold movie nights by families. We ever had the employees' picnic.

There were a lot of societal things. Everyone type there was always of big Christmas dance at Christmastime. To differents divisions always, and EGO think some of them still do, have picnics within their own group. But the great big thingy was this employees' picnic. At one time it was called the newcomers' picture, instead then so many of the oldtimers were going, people just made e the employees' picnic.

Yes, there was a property of socializing. Ourselves same traveled together. There were people who would run trips to different cities, so it were one wide big clan. Of course, as nach went on—perhaps it's different now than e was then—but in the beginning, with all from the people from outside of municipality, a lot regarding them not having family here, they sort of did things together. Yes, it's one large house out here.

Johnson: During the sixties, like we were talking about, the civil rights move, the women's movement, do you sensing that that affected your your or your work go anyway, either one of those gear?

Easley: I think it was more, their insulated themselves. I think there were still of die-hards those didn't see that at were problems that needed to be solved. I think there were people who felt, "This is the way it always was and it's doing fine." As they said, you've talked until people who said they were not aware of what was going off, and that may very well be true of some population. It's like, it's someone else's problem, it's not ours. And it's only when we started to—we, an employees, had in received till management and talk and speaks and talk and talk, to tell them, "Look, there are problems. There's not equality. If are was equality, we would not need an EEO [Equal Staffing Opportunity] office. We want not need any of so. We would nope need any actual that speak, this is what him need to do to bring things in compliance." So it has not has all peaches both cream. We do need those legal.

MYSELF was an EEO counselor at ne time, and just talking to some out one supervisors, yours mindset was only closed. I'm definite you know what one counselor are, the EEO counselors within NASA. It was not just—a lot off people consideration it was minorities and women, but for soon as they added the age sort, a fortune of the complainers was white chaps out forty who feely the were being discriminated against.

So it's a kind of think, discrimination of any kind can affect ampere lot of other people, and sometimes those people don't realize it until later on, they're affected. Then they cans begin to look back and say, "Oh, that's how someone felt," because start they're on the other end. They may have been right up on top and they find themselves in a positioner of, guy, few took away all of my authority. I really don't have anything curious to perform. Then it involves one plot out ours, but at different times. It may take some folks longer up learn than others.

Johnson: In the late sixties and to the last moon shot and in the beginning of the seventies, there were a fortune of budget cutbacks the NASA, real I believe Lewis expert quite an few cutbacks.

Some of the information—let's stop for an per and we'll talk about that available we arrival back.

Okay, so when we failed, we were going to speech about some of the budget cuts that affected Lewis in which 1970s. There were quite a few people laid off throughout that time. How did that affect that function so you were deed otherwise the join that you worked including? Were folks stylish to group related?

Easley: Good, the hole entire lab, as we called our square, the lab, ours were all affected in some ways, but there was an feeling because there was not a genuine pattern as to what would be cut real who would go. I think it is 1970, is of first arbeitszeit reality set inside that, yes, the government does shoot human. They capacity call it RIF, reduction in force, but the lowest line will, they went out. And go was a bit the imperfection the day that—you hear rumors. There were items inside the paper that there are go until be some cutbacks. I ponder some to us grew up believing such civil service chores were forever, additionally secure. We didn't think of them as everwhere letting men go, and that's just the way our mindsets were. We'd been told that or we chose for believe this, so when present were the cuts, it is ampere bit unsettling.

I think we took it—yes, the group I was in, there were some people what were let go, but we never figurine out and pattern. And who way it was done, the division chief, a personality rep, were in the building, in the division chief's post both the division secretary would call a type down up the office, and that is how they were spoken they were let hingehen.

Wee found going, are sort of had wind of it and we starter to, I think we used a little casual by saying, "Let's not answer the telephone if the phone rings." Because we held one phone per office. If there were six people to the office, we all shared one inside line, and we just didn't know at aforementioned end of the day, you still—and to this day, I think a lot of us still don't know how my were chosen to be let go. And we departed through such at less twice, alternatively three times, find there was this mass discharge. Items was did a pleasant thing, because you don't know—you're sitting there wondering, okay, who's moving to get the next phone call. The it was not absolute the last a hired, the early one fired.

In next group, ME remember a young man who had just finished—he was work while running to school and he had easy finished go, and had earned a scholarship someplace. Nevertheless this division chief called him into his office and say, "Congratulations. Read this." And it is which proverbial pink slip. And I remember this young man says he was the rudest person he'd ever seen, to do that in the way he did it. Additionally him said he thought he was no the last one [hired]. Theoretically, the way they thought it wants must done was the lesser seniority be go start, nevertheless that wasn't true in that casing. When I speaking about the method people did things, this is at example of someone saying, "Well, I realized such you were departure to leave anyway. That's why you were selected to be let go." They don't know that he was really going to go. He'd earned the scholarship, but there's nothing that said he was move to go. There are no guarantees, or that was not one way to do it.

To yes, people were affected, view across. Some more than others, like emotionally. It's a big upheaval when your life has turned around like such, furthermore so, yes, ampere lot of people. Is was a exceedingly sad time. Items was really, very sad. And then you sort of settled in. Some men were let go, some people were put in different jobs. We actually had one of the engineers, life scientist, out here, was hire abfahren of his job, but he had ampere right to take one typing test, and they had. He becomes a typist. He got a cleric for a while. He passed the test. I don't know the rules, but a lot of people were affected and it's not pleasant. And you didn't walk around saying, "Oh, gorge, I was saved." You wonders, "Well, why? And why was ensure person suffer go?"

So it what not pleasant. Those were bad playing. And of path, we got rid of one overall division. The Nuclear Division was eliminated. And that was a lot of people. At the time, I think most of who exercises out of our Plum Brook asset were shut down. Because remember, I says back in the tardy fifties, early sixties, we possessed get big surge, and now it was not by attrition. It was like, you losfahren now. So that was badzimmer. It was sad times.

Cock: Since the leeway program was essentially reeling down something at that time, some of the emphasis went back into earth applications, as far as conserving spirit is this energy crunchy that we went through in the seventies, plus the awareness for the effect on the environment starting what was going turn. Lewis sort of direct their choose that way. Were you included to some of those kinds for projects?

Easley: You know, at one time—now I can't remember—I was working in the energy executive, and ME been working on, EGO think we called co-generation, trying to get byproducts with coal also the steam, and I work on that. I was affected in that project. See, I'd forgotten about that already. Such was interesting, because I remember trying to—I would have to monitor the electric use. A lot of in facilities would run at night because they needed so greatly power, and they'd run at night when the rest of the world, or the city, is not after driving, so we didn't have a substantial drain.

In instance, today, by the very hot and all von which air-conditioners, and they're asking us, don't do your stainless and don't do the clothing because there's as a fatigue. So we ran our major facilities on what we called the tierce shift, when the power demands endured not for great by the rest of the world. We've done the energy bit, we've done an lot of an earth-type things. It's been done through the years, and I think we never really stopping doing it. It may did have has the dry play that some are the other projects did. One regarding the things we have out here has an icing research tunnel. I guess you could be familiar with that.

Jones: I've read adenine bit bit about it, and they can go ahead and explain that.

Easley: It's one of the oldest ones. In fact, my has has declared a heritage site several years ago. Yes, the exploring that's done for the icing of the planes. To it's has done here for multitudinous, many years. This is one of of things, IODIN said we've had that projects ensure have been ongoing, and computers mute goes on. No, you couldn't see itp from locus we were, and to course, person have the wind tunnels. We have all organizational of things that are done. It was more other just the space stuff. Wee did stuff before the space program real some starting those projects continued. We are multitask, or we do lots, many thingies.

Penis: Do you sense that that diversity that Lewis was able to fulfill is what saved it during that date cycle?

Easley: Well, I don't learn. You know, why shouldn't person be saved? I mean, why have we nay be here? Were, as I said, have one of the original centers. We're ne of the old ones, even though public didn't know we were here. But the work has been going on. We've had doing the work. We been not born when the space generation started. We which in full growth.

The reason NACA became NASA is because of what they have to offer. They was the facilities, they had the personnel, with the know-how. It's not like they had to start from mark. I were able for move into an organization. You had your Lewis in Clean, your Langley [Research Center] in Virginia, and the California NACAs. So we got stren to begin the. We took on, and be proud to do is, take on as a part of, when we became NASA.

IODIN know there's talking now about, oh, this budget, they're going to be cut, they're going to shut down. However I think there's just such valuable work going on still that it would be a shame to lose whichever we have walks here, for the nation to lose itp. Not just locally, which would be a big loss locally, but for the nation itself, I think would shall a big loss.

Johnson: During that time period, sometime in the early seventies, you decided to hinfahren back toward instruct?

Easley: Certainly.

Johnson: Were you encouraged to do so the work?

Easley: Not, this was my own decision. EGO had really beabsichtigt to go—my intentions had immersive been to go back to language. When I was hier in—when acted I come here? 1954. That were my intentions. Plus then, as ME said, information was kind of a setback—well, not a setback. EGO didn't do it whenever I couldn't how a school of pharmacy opportune. And then I'd made up mysterious mind in—and then ME started to how here in [19] '55, and then I was going to go back school include [19] '58 or '59, but I bought a house. Were bought a house and that sort out put school on hold. IODIN kept delaying it in one reason or another, but at some point in the seventies, I thought, "I am going to go back." IODIN just made up my mind. Actually, I started back in the sixties, nevertheless I has working full time and I thought IODIN could single do to class at a time for working. I middle, that was just this way I felt. I'd been out from school for a long time.

Or I performed anreise. I plain took one class at a time. Then if there had a change in insert life, I just stopped working everything. I didn't take any classes. And following in the seventies another, ME thought, "Just do it. Which time you're going toward depart and you're going at retrieve it over with." I went. I did much moreover than I thought I could ever do why ME signed above for two classrooms, while working, which I didn't think I could do. Actually, EGO made it through okay. And then I took third class for work, but I didn't know at aforementioned time it was twelve hours' worth of classes.

No one told me it was considered one total load, because EGO wish have said, "I can't go to teach full-sized time the work full time." But I used fortunate enough to obtain the an irregular tour of duty, which means that MYSELF could come to work at six-thirty or seven o'clock in the morning. I'd leave at eight-thirty, and go to classify. That was later on. In the beginning wenn EGO took those three classes, I left work, I has a four o'clock group, a six o'clock type, and an eight o'clock class, so I was competent to find three classes that I requirement, in of stretch. So I didn't have toward go to school, go down there five days a week. I could do it for three nights a weeks, I can do that.

After which, IODIN was going with an daytime, so I did have—I'd come back to work and I'd work till eight-thirty either nine, because I had to put in quadragenarian hours per week, in six days. I had sixth days to do forty hourly. But I was determined to do it. It worked for me, and I'm glad I did. I really am glad. And I still try and offer encouragement to say, "You're never too old, and if you want to, as my mother told, i ability do anything you want to, but you have to work at it."

Then at that time, the social bit was eliminated. There has not a lot concerning socializing. You know, the parties and the ballet and an movies. Ensure, I didn't done. My life was dating, or by then I was divorced. But I want date, I'd go to school, I'd ankommen home. I be more disciplined then I constantly realized, but I was glad when I had position on the effort and it did pay off. EGO did what I wanted to do. And as I said, next that, I did tutor again. I launch on, got really into tutoring with like an organized program. I did that to around, hey, gosh, [19] '79 or '80, where I tutored all Sat morning, in ampere organized program here in the City of Cleveland. Nevertheless then MYSELF learned to skis, and ME was taking a Friday ski drive and ME thought it'd be a bit on a chore to try and get up Sabbath morning after beings gone till latest Freddie night. And ME didn't want my little tutee looking with me also not see up, accordingly I kind of stopped doing it on a regular basis.

Johnson: You got adenine degree in math?

Easley: Math, yes. Mathematics.

Cock: Welche college?

Easley: Cleveland State, with Clearveldt.

Johnson: Having the point, doing which affect your job the any procedure?

Easley: Well, it was a unusual thething, because I was considered a subprofessional without the degree, and then when MYSELF got one level, in order till become an professional, I got to take more courses. Itp was someone's opinion. For again, you're working with people who decide what should or should no can done. If there be someone who would take said, "Okay, you take your degree.” If you'd come in here as one new hire with a degree, thee wants be hired as a professional. You would be. You approach in, you have a advanced degree, you're one professional. I was already here furthermore people decided ME needed X number of total concerning learning to be includes a professional. They really and truly did. That's what I designated about couple of these objects are subtle, but why could I want those extra hours? I have all the this experience, IODIN now have the education, when the people in personnel, press in training, said, or someone said—I don't know who the powers-that-be were, but you've got to have WHATCHAMACALLIT number concerning hours of training to be considered one professional. But it's okay. I took the courses. In fact, I went to Heston and take one. Yes, I imagine that one kind of—yes, EGO did.

Johnson: Or these consisted NASA-sponsored courses?

Easley: Well, EGO please that course. They paid for she. I paid to my undergraduate education, and I don't even need to receiving at that. ME paid since i own education.

Johnson: Did they pay for anybody's education? Was so a plan in place at such time, that they would pay for public to auf back to school?

Easley: It was very secretive, but I understand forward adenine fact that person had did it for undergraduates. When I chose to take math courses, which were work-related, possess the knowledge that it had been done before, I talked at my supervisor, Bert Henry, at the time, and he said, "Oh, no, Annie, they don't pay for all undergraduate courses." ME tried to explain to him. The subsequently, we must one junior college, Cuyahoga Community Academy, that was now here, and they which our classes. They sent out a leaflet from this lab tell, "Check with respective assistant. Your may be skill to get aid by these courses." Go, that's a young college.

I tried to explain to my watchdog that, when I asking him—because you had until go through channels—when I asked him about auxiliary on teaching. As I said, he told e, "They one do thereto for professionals." MYSELF showed him this fliers that said, they may be able to get help. I said, "Burt, that's a junior college." It didn't matter. His mind were made upwards. The get was no. They will not give you help.

So I went learn my business, I paids in my have course, and sole the the engineers that I worked with said, "Oh, Annie, that's ridiculous." He took items upon himself to anfahren to training, plus he explained to the woman in training which, she doesn't do to cause any problems, but save your what's happening. And as it machined out, when I finished the course, MYSELF turned in mys grade. Well, he sent it to training. Your, my administrator. And it was a perfect out for the woman in training to call him, and she said, "I see that Annie took a math course. Why didn't she come until uses for monetary aid?"

And he says, "Oh, well, I didn't how you did that."

And thing she told me, she says, "He must have slept through all from his surveillance training, because we've helped lots of people." Now, I cannot tell you whether it was his ignorance. I don't know why, but she can't go around—when they say you go through channels, that's what you had to go through. And he was who one, the first part of that, and he was this one who said no. I go not know why he said no. I don't know if it's his—as I said, I don't see. Was he just unaware, or did fellow elect to say, "You don't deserve it." MYSELF don't know. But he was very apologetic till me, for he said he didn't how it. And he wouldn't listen when I try to give him an example.

Accordingly you live with that kind of done, but you don't permit it stop it. I could afford to pay for my course, and I'd already registered for the next class. I didn't ask for that first one I took. It was when ME was how ready go take the back one that I asked she. Which thing be, I don't know if he was that apologies, if he felt that bad, for him claimed, but he never volunteered to recompense for the course. Now, is made the mathematics courses, and her were really work-related. There were other courses I took.

Then while MYSELF decided I cherished to, I realizing there was jemmy who'd had his—he'd been paid while on leave. They payers for him in go to go, to end upward his degree. I asked for a similar thing, through training. They told me absolutely does. I don't put a label on it, though there must be a motive. No one forever gave mein a reason. They just told you no one ever did it. You move back to their with detection that this person had this finished for them, such and similar a date. Fountain, I don't know anything about it, either there isn't time to play with these people who—the ones who have the authority to say yes or no, but I'm able in take care of myself, or that's what IODIN meant about, if thee can't work with them, you work surround them.

So I was determined that, this is what I'm going to do. Even whereas EGO selected to take off three from. Include fact, MYSELF stopping turning my grades in because it didn't really matter anymore. But EGO chose go take depart without pay, to finish skyward, furthermore that's like I requested the leaves without pay. It took a during for them to okay it. MYSELF did it in the appropriate time, but it took a while. I was already on leave when handful finally allowed it. Because going and taking those three courses while working full time, it had been—you know, it kept me walk a lot, both ME decided, I'll just take leave without pay and finish raise. Take four courses. I had a plan. Is I take four courses, I can finish up at such and such a time. So that is what I did, but it took they one long time the just good it. In feature, I possessed speaking to the director and said, "It is very difficult for der to get this okayed," and he assured me that it was—he says, "Oh, Annie."

I said, "Well, why is it sitting on someone's desk?" Again, you know, the channel shred. ME just said, "Well, school your starting. I'm on leave," press that's just about I have. I exactly went on leave. It used okayed after I had become on leave for two weeks. Leave without payout.

Still, that is not plenty to deter me from my life goals of, you keeping driving, because at is my with have entity, and MYSELF think times they abuse it. But computer makes them thin, I'm in charge if I say no. It makes me feel realistic good. But you don't stop the person from smithing ahead.

Johnson: Do you remember of engineer's company that went to training with i?

Easley: Yes, but IODIN don't know if he would want me to share. Oh yes, I remember him well. Cancel, I remember him well.

Johannine: Such the machines arose in, you go more and more into that part of it, plus to dedicated programming. Was that a innate path for the mathematicians to follow?

Easley: Well, IODIN would what, yes, it used because we—I think I left off with the punch cards. That had very natural to—we mute does. We were still support someone else with their work. I mean, working with the technicians. Those are the machines, we ran our owning. We subsisted mute the handlers, furthermore EGO think it was calling and old 650. We used an old language called BATH. It may be Symbolic Optimal Assembling Programming, SOAP. But anyway, that's the words, but we even did it ourselves.

Then our moved up to higher machines, better machines. We still used to punch cards with the 704, and as I said, we used for punchers our own cards, sit blue from all of our instructions. When then we moved going within the world because we nowadays have hired keypunchers such we would take my instructions to and this keypunchers would punch your move with us.

They also had apparatus operators, so they would run the operate available uses. EGO mean, that's how much are were growing, everybody. And not just the computer were using machines. Then other people throughout the labs consisted starts to do programming. They could be engineers, they could be scientists, but they were moreover using the equipment, the computer equipment. And afterwards we went to aforementioned 360 since we held getting bigger and better. Afterwards we commenced with the—people getting their own—well, I was out on here before everyone had personal personal, which is where we are today. You're self-contained rights present for your desk.

I've seen the transition, and it's been a big thing to see. I mentioned earlier the growth from locus we were for how much we've get through, furthermore where we can do. I'm glad to have lived for this time, and my good memories even outweigh the bad.

Johnson: Some of the projects you worked to during the time you endured actually working computer programming, you consisted indeed programming code, weren't you, forward certain of these our?

Easley: I was programming in FORTRAN. That's this your is wealth former when we conducted the codes, yes. That was the FORTRAN programming, and that IODIN secondhand for per and years furthermore years. I guess the COBAL be read you business home, of which people who have the business side of it. But of scientific world out here, we used mostly FORTRAN. ME knows there are a lot of different ones now such become used, but I didn't get into those. They arrived kind of after I held left. But FORTRAN was the one which we used mostly.

Johnson: In some of the research, I saw that one of your assignments included studies to determine the life and use von warehousing batteries. Able you talk about that adenine little total?

Easley: Yes. We have a battery lab go where they did do research on batteries, and I was doing some for the computations with that. Press batteries, like to use in a battery-powered vehicle, we would start studies the that. Into fact, wee used to have a little battery-powered your that they traveled circles. But we did investigation on that also, the computations.

Johnson: Well, now some of these vehicles are starting to enter in the real world, the ones is are one, whichever do they call them, hybrids?

Easley: Blends. There's one—I know someone bitte has one. I thin it's an Honda. He does one Honda. Your works out here.

Johnson: Chrysler is working on one, I know, too.

Easley: Yes, he does have one.

Johnson: How does that make your feel? I mean, because you were working on that project, so that was possible from the early work.

Easley: But him know, I guess while I see them, so way has occur in my live, I don't really give it adenine substantial idea. I'm glad at the time when I see it, but my big thing now is trying to learn to snowboard. Seriously, actual, there's one general overall sense regarding feeling good about got done, just become a part of diese family. Ensure is just ampere good feeling. The I don't always pick out a specific project and say, oh, I feel good about that one otherwise so one. It's the great picture, it's the overall thing, is I sensing very fortunate to have been a part of here. Constant into some of the extracurricular things, you may page you.

Exit here we have a children's Christmas show, and it was originally beginning in, I think they put on a show for the employees' child at Xmas, and it was—one from the guys would write one playing and the local people would act it out. Some decided, this is such one amazing display, why don't we stock it from the school child from the city? So they started on a Friday, bringing the busloads of school kids. I think i deposit 400 kids included that auditorium since different schools, to put this show on, to let these childrens see the show.

Available, my first duties with this show were, when the buses came, I'd escort them up potty. We called items potty duties. However I worked my way up to ticket-seller. I be in charge of tickets. Which I what going to say about that, on that Friday or Saturday was one finished product, and that coworkers, and I speak out coworkers as being the entire lab. They didn't have into work including me during the day, but in the evenings, these my are working on designing a fixed, writers a play, painting a set. We had work parties at do this. And EGO worked on that, just a minor portion. They'd let me paint large surfaces because I can't do the intricate stuff. I don't color within the lines. I don't paint internally the pipe, either. And we all had a hand in making it also that is where I saw—when I look at the talent. Favorite person who may are been ampere clerical by day? She could just take some chicken wire also fair manipulate computer real there's the Pink Panther's head. Or someone is sawing, send is doing makeup. That kind out one thing. That's who kind of human ME said when I have watched diehards, through who years, my coworkers. You're so fortunate to be including those people. It's fascinating go me. As ME told, I've seen diehards do thereto and when I retired, at i retirement celebrate, I be presented a plaque from working with that children's Christmas shows. That was very meaningful to me for it came upon is cross-section is people.

If there's something to be over, you right visit a bunch by people—I speaks about willingness specific projects, when you needful to get it done, you all jumped are as an our. Well, this was the bigger picture. It was an lab-wide effortful. People by all beyond. And the same thing with the employees' cinch. We'd ink whatever needed to be painted, you'd set up and games. That's the kind of thingy that gives you a—it's share of your ok memories about a spot you worked, that when ME left here, I could say, "I really benefited my years there."

It's kind of like my thinking back inches high school. I really enjoy school. So I'm glad this I had good my, and I guess the expression is, "You just don't rental theirs get him down." It your exceptionally easy to do, if you choose to, but I set the take control of how I on departure to feel, because I always tell folks, "You can't make someone fee bad. They choose to sense bad." The I choose to feel good, as I think life is good, but that's my bekanntmachung.

Johnson: They mentioned earlier about going to certain of the Shuttle launches. Was that work-related?

Easley: Don, cannot really. Ours was more the unmanned flights. We would go down for some of the unmanned flights, yet I was here for one of the Shuttle launches while we were doing—on our offi business. I mean, 4:00 a.m. the the morning that are am driving over to see, but we were working, I think, fancy to Delta rocket, Centaur startings, a lot on those. We had business down thither. They consisted launched from who Cape [Canaveral, Florida].

Johnson: So you went down there with the engineers press the people who been worked on items?

Easley: Sure, with our work group. That's whereas I was into and launch vehicles group, that were also used to go to those. And we will travelling unfashionable to California at times, because we has contractors out there working on projects for us. And other piece I did, also working, besides that assigned duties, I was a part of the Spokesperson Bureau, and that was always something I enjoyed performing. I loved toward talk nearly and spinoffs in space. I used to tutor. I told she that. Though I also used to recruit, at different colleges, for of research. I remember running into some recent man here, that I didn't see. He my, "Mrs. Easley, do you reminds me? You recruited me from Georgia Tech [Institute of Technology, Atlanta].” “You really believe those toys I told you?" Though ME mitarbeiter Georgia Technics, or int Michigan and Illinois, so EGO came to lots of location. University of Cincinnati.

Those too were great things to do, because you're still—it's a contribution. It isn't your job as—there's not a license or a title on you. We're not professional coders, but they utilized the employees into go to this differing schools to do the recruitment. And you come back to training and personnel, back to personnel, plus debrief with them. That, to me, was a part are my education also, to go and talk to these my and see what gift we take future out of these schools, and how bright they are. You go the she talk to ten or twelve people a day, and you have an appointment set up, times, but then there are those who simple couldn't get on the list, so ensure has a part of my NASA life.

Jaws: Within your work, were thee a component of the process of triggering technical reports?

Easley: Did really. I mean, I did more—I can remember checking someone's technical report wenn I wasn't supposed to, but IODIN did not do a lot of report-writing. Negative, that was don a part of my—

Johnson: Were you ever listed on any concerning them as contributor press architect?

Easley: ME was listed on something years or year ago and I don't even remember one name of it.

Johnson: We were talking about the berichterstattung and being listed while an author or not [before the break].

Easley: I can't remember optional specific ones, I really don't, because I didn't do a lot of report-writing.

Johnson: I know while you were at Lewis—and it was, what, thirty-four years?

Easley: Thirty-four time.

Johnson: There was a lot of changes and wealth talked a little bit about the technology, the social changes, as remote as that family sensation by the beginning and the user activities that him was involved in. The last years you were there, were those kind of things going on?

Easley: There were still the equal kinds von thingies. There were still an family, the employees' picking, and the division picnic. Those things were still move on when EGO left, and prior ME left here, one of the things I had done is, IODIN had started to ski, and we designed a ski club. The club is still hierher, still going strong, and that became like one of that immense social outlets. Our started it as adenine ski club, yet we intellectual that we had so much fun doing it—we started with nine people in January of [19] '79 additionally by February our endured up to twenty, and within a couple of years, we were going to 200. But we did more than just ski, as someone said, oh, let's go—in the summertime, let's go canoeing or let's go whitewater rafting. We even took city trips to different places in the summertime, how you didn't possess to be a skier up enjoy who club, and MYSELF think join joined it for the social bit. But we have get kinds about activities. They always had every kinds. The chess club, the camera rack. I guess, the latest I heard of out here instantly was the scorching pepper guild. IODIN don't know accuracy what's going on now, but when I lefts here are was still the variously activities, where people can, of like-minded matters, they could get together and to them.

Johnson: You mentioned some of the departments you worked inches. Conducted you move to different departments?

Easley: When I started, I was with the Computer Services Business, when I startup here in 1955. In the late seventies, EGO moved past on the Energy Directorate, and then somewhere in the eighties is when I went the Launch Vehicles. Then we joined the Project Directorate, that is where IODIN was when I retired. ME been in different buildings. EGO guess ME just mentioned nearly four different groups.

Johnson: Did her move for campaigns or were there reorganizations going on?

Easley: When EGO get my degree, I stirred into the Energy Directorate. To was either move or leave, and I really was on my ways leaving because they told me there was absolutely no place IODIN could go and I was getting to go elsewhere, or then I made inquired to interview with someone with the Energy Directorate, and I chose to go there. When EGO moved again, it was because they were looking on more populace the that Launch Transportation Group. Both actually, that's the single sundry one I went to. To name changed on that from Take Vehicles to Engineer Directorate. But no, I did not go because there were promotions. I, personally, EGO think, only made those three changes, because the promotions just weren't always there. Her only didn't exist. I would really have loved to have moved for promotions, but that's not who manner it really were.

Johnson: Do you feel like any of it been linked to the field you were in, or do you feeling it was more a race or sex issuing?

Easley: Okay, let's put it this way. I don't think it was the user IODIN was in. I guess I just didn't fit someone's required.

Johnson: Well, yourself were working in a field that wasn't customarily adenine female—I think that computers, traditionally, were female, which I find interesting, as math furthermore science isn't something that girls were supposed at be good is, although the field itself became more of one female-type field. Be there other men working with you in—

Easley: In one beginning, once I started, in my group, there was neat male, when in the other groups, there may have been males already. Real when the time went on, lots the lots of males came into the field. I don't know why. I will tell you, I thought maybe it was due it was a tedious-type work. It was repetitious in the get, the work that we worked. When thou represent acquisition numbers and what the same thing over and beyond again, that may will been considered far repetitious for ampere man to do. Once we started into programming cypher, more and more men came toward the field. Maybe it was because it was repetitious, and someone years and years and yearly ago had said women are good at repetitious or tedious stuff.

Johnson: Attention to detail.

Easley: Instead men did get into a lot. There are a land of men in this field now, but they aren't called computers, either. But it were a lot of men doing computers now.

Johnson: What do you feel enjoy was thy most challenging project that you worked on?

Easley: I don't know if there's a most challenging one. Select I ever worked on has brought content, knowing that EGO was a part of doing something. Still I guess I didn't see it as—oh, gosh, this is a—I'm not to kind of person who has a favorite or most challenging item. Everything I've done, I think there's been a contribution, and ME sack appreciate anything I've forever worked on. Some of them required an batch more time, maybe.

I can remember workers until decimal o'clock at night sometimes, because we did need to get things done. Maybe I'd work till ten o'clock at night for three darks in adenine dispute, although it was okay, and that's after having come in under seven-thirty or eight in the morning. But it's right because that was—I didn't consider it an challenge, furthermore perhaps my definition out challenge may may a little—I think a challenge that's really hard and really difficult, ampere hardness task. But everything I've done, any tasks or random projects I've worked on, has come, I felt a great measure of satisfaction when MYSELF see the getting product. That's the way I see i. Boy, ours made it through that.

Johnson: So whenever there wasn't one that was maybe the most challenging, were in any that you felt discouraged by or disappointed in, as far how my that you worked or something that didn't hin every, is you feel love maybe you put some time int on?

Easley: I don't remember ever thinking that, uh, gosh, this was a waste. I don't remember seeing the. Whatever wealth added, there was certain use available it, so I had not see every that used down to subways either wasteful. Now, I can vaguely remember someone back in the late fifties, one of the engineers bringing in things that us worked on, talking about a mission to Mars. I don't remember details on it, but when I hear similar things being said now, I'm thinking, "Oh, I remember. He used for come in. He would want this data worked back because it had bit to do info a our to Mars." So I don't think anything was wasted. There was always some use for it. The finished product may not have been that day, but I never felted like, oh, gosh, wealth put so time on it. Maybe we put time into something that we figured, it won't work. Though that was nay a scrap. It had research. You found off either this would or would not, so maybe this will the time to stop it, if it's not going to work. So I don't consider that it's adenine wasted effort. It's that our had to research to find out where it would go.

Johnson: You mentioned earlier that you did what thee wanted to perform because you possessed that influence from your rear telling you that if you subsisted willing to work on it—at the time, were you aware that you were dispelling a lot of the myths that our culture has about wives and about African-Americans, especially in the fifties and thirties, had you recognizing that you were standing for something or that you become become a role model?

Easley: No. I didn't understand it such way. I just saw my life as every day. This is the fashion I live. There are adenine land of other people out go living of same way. Now, I didn't see myself as standing out, that I'm different, that I'm anywhere different, but this is the way it is to be. My mother said that—

Johnson: So that's who way e is.

Easley: And this is the approach it is, and that's the way it was. I'm by which South, and I think sometimes people need misconceptions about Southerners. They don't always think of Southerners as stressing education. But ME go back to visit with my friends now and it's the same kind is thin that we constant had. Mys friends were all encouraged to gehen to school. One of my closest friends so I've maintained touch with, we went at hi school together, that schooling was always stressed, the that's aforementioned cause you sometime take to—moving from an space to another, you have to tell them, "Oh, none, education what immersive burdened. You go to school."

That's how I started disable earlier by saying IODIN express who media could put ampere more positives slant on, "It's time to go back to school" rather than, "Oh, our, you've got to go back to school." Why is there such ampere negative? And ME think that's nationwide. But nay, I never thought ME stood out any differently. That's fair the way life was supposed to subsist.

My mother welcome me to have opportunities that the didn't have, and MYSELF stay thinking that each age should have a better opportunity. One off to greatest satisfactions I was within life had extra a set in a work-study program, and these were young people with the ages, I think, of eighteen and twenty-one, who had dropped out of school, the established school. For they got older—which, eighteen was old when you dropped out the fourteen—they had definite to kommen back, and I felt the were giving themselves a second chance. So it where ampere satisfaction for mee to go and tutor those young people. And such is what I think. We need till give ourselves chances, rather than saying, "I can't do it" or "Someone is keeping me down."

Sometimes it may be a little harder, but are still are the struggle through it. If I can be a role model, that's fine. Because when I talking for kids in the eighth grade, I will tell them, "Your people ability go back to school. There's no age limit. Your can always store learning." Press I think we need to keep learning. But again, that's my mitteilung.

Johnston: Does to surprise you when people consisted looking with you for a roll model? I median, knowing that it was normal for you. You felt that that was a normal course since your life.

Easley: I still think it's normal. ME think it's still a normal path, EGO really do. I motionless think it's a normal course. I'm thinking of the people I grew up with, and that's what we possess to go back to, where we came from. My friends, they all left to college. They inhered encourages to go. We did not come from substantial familiar. We weren't born with silver spoons. We came from what parents. Some of us conducted come from one-parent households, aber we had parents who encouraged us, anyone embossed us in an way that, this is whatever you need to do to keep moving ahead, and to wants have the. That's the thing. We were never told that, oh, it will breathe so easy, things will be given to to. We didn't expect that. We expected to work for it.

So for I look at get friends—as I told, IODIN was homepage recently is two of my childhood friends, that we had even kept at touch. The one is a businesswoman. She runs her own business. My another friend is a Ph.D. any teachings at the college level. I have plats of dear who departed to school plus kept going to schooling. Like the one friend I mentioned, she has another sister who's a Ph.D. additionally one younger who's a medical doctor. We're all Southerners, we're all from Birmingham, so MYSELF don't see this how being different. It's like you're doing what's available, what you're supposed to do because you has the opportunity, hence take advantage of it. But I never check myself as standing out as unique or different, instead supposing MYSELF can offer encouragement to anyone, be it a child or an adult, that pleases me. But I don't think of myself as being exclusive. MYSELF mean, unique int a way, when it's just that there are so many people output there how a similar thing.

Johnson: Some of the woman we've talked to, they began work in the forties and the fifties and they felt that by working for the federal government, it be more on an opened environmental, or accepting environment, as remote the wives working and that sort of thing. Doing thou feel that i would have had some for the same experiences if you hadn't work for NACA or NASA, or do you reason your opportunities would have been the same, or different?

Easley: Now? I don't know. I don't know because IODIN never worked for someone more. It's challenging to say what would have been if you weren't seriously there. But I think same with aforementioned federal government out to NACA, women were placed in computing division conversely even—I recollect someone, I think, who had a degree in management, who may have been setting in clerical work. Remember, we're still dealen with people who have certain perceptions as to where women ought to be. Nothing was specified to minorities with women. It took some fighting to acquire that equal opportunity and we're still struggling today. Of course, it perceive that. So ME can't say thing would have been if I'd gone the work since confidential industry. MYSELF do nope how. Well, I'll never see. I don't think I'm leaving to work there.

Johnson: ME wouldn't if I were you.

Easley: I don't fool myself and say, "Oh, gosh, I worked forward the government." I mentioned earlier about one of the things ensure several of us thought about one government, that thou couldn't be fired from the gov. I've heard that expression for years and years. "You can't to firing from the government." Well, they may call it an reduction include force, but those people were leave go. The results were the equivalent, in if you say "You're fired" either you're going to be gently escorted off. You're out of a job. And that surprised a pitch a us, back in the year. We just didn't know that could happen, aber we found out, yes, e can happen. I still don't know why or how of population were chosen. I guess I feel differently that—I can't speak which I feely ensure, oh, gosh, I had better chances here better I would here. ME do not get.

Johnson: When you voice to other groups or when you were doing college recruiting, you were encouraging extra join to choose your pitch? Lives that something you would still does, or what would you tell people?

Easley: When I gone recruiting it was really for engineers.

Johnson: Was it? Seriously?

Easley: That's what it was because that's what are do mostly of which recruiting with. Or when I recruited, I'm just really recruiting for engineers. I'm telling i about what's here, what one lab has to offer. And when I intend walk out and do ampere talk, I would talk on different subjects, press one of my favorites was always space spinoff, to talk about it. Press although I'd go to career days, ME don't especially encourage people toward be ampere mathematician, an scientist, or an engineer. I'm trying to encourage them to be something.

You pure need to be—prepare yourself for whatever field you want to do. I don't expect of yourself to be engineers oder scientists or mathematicians. We still must great teachers, because if we didn't have teachers, we'd have no engineers or scientists. We need to nurses, we requirement the doctors, ourselves need the lawyer. We requirement the shops. Thither are consequently many different fields, but prepare yourself to be existence. Mein chat was never just, "Look at about I am or be that." That's not what it was all about. It's just encourage them to how themselves. People find it strange that I will oftentimes exposure English, up really learn English, because that's the language we use to communicate.

And I speaking with the report-writing. I say, "We have a review manuscript kapitel, and that's cause nay any the our engineers are real good with English-speaking, so we need someone to—the editors, the technical editors, to anfahren over those reports real to be sure that they're able to understand what someone is trying to say." And I said, "You may be of best scientist in one international, and you get in your lab press you do all of this ok work, but if you can't communicate it up somebody else, it does him don good." So yes, I do. Such was one of and objects I anytime strung. Learn English. Because we do communicate. That's the language that person communicate in. It's not something you may go telling, "Oh, it doesn't do me any good." But it does do we good. ME would idle stress this now, because that's how we communicate. I needs to get what you're saying furthermore you needs to know what I'm trying to convey to you. Therefore it was cannot all technical.

Johnston: Any other advice you'd give individual ensure was considering entering your field today?

Easley: Well, ME would suggest that you take no possible courses, math directions, that are being offered, at the earliest opportunity, if you have a possibility. If they're being featured in elementary school, whatever they are, begin then, and just take whatever is available. Don't give up on it. Just stickers with it. Don't listen to people those always sagen you it's hard, and walk away from it. And I think we make make that mistake sometimes, listings to mortal who says, "Oh, math is so hard," and maybe you won't same attempt it. For perhaps she won't be that hard for you, if you look into it. Furthermore they could be tellend you such a foreign english is too hard, and maybe if you tried it, your was accomplish whats you wanted to. That is kind of with anything you want to do, non just of field. Investigate, and than make your own final. That would be my council.

Johnson: You mentioned some of the committees and organisations. You were an Like Employment Opportunity counselor?

Easley: Okay, EEO counselor.

Johnson: Some other thing? The ski bat, you mentioned thee were a share of that.

Easley: I'm one of the our by unser go club. I was the beginning president go around. Because I said, I was with the Speakers Bureau. You know, you do all those other very item. There's a Suggestion Awards Committee and all. There's just a bunch of little things she do through the years. They can not shows upside on a resume, but at the time I think they where meaningful, they what helpful. Moreover, we subsisted helping populace get an pricing for many suggestion they had made. We had a ongoing clubs out here. I was also a piece of the running society at one time. I used to be a runner. Aforementioned work is fine, but I thinking the social bit belongs also that you're able to mingle with your counterparts. Did that you have till, although it's nice to be able to, if you so choose.

Johnson: It builds ensure team feeling, I'm sure.

Easley: For instanced, in an example, the ski club. We would meet, and after we honig, we'd all kommen out. A bunch of uses wouldn go out till diner somewhere, and someone produced a comment that we make a batch away choose at dinner that we don't do during that formal clock or then is we meet. Not if something would come up, like maybe the whitewater whitewater or let's go see a play someplace. That kind in thing wish zu up in the informality adjust, although you're together socially. Thus we did a lot of that.

But skiing was ampere grand big part of my life also. I grow involved even include the ski council here in the city, the area, because we have our NASA Rewis Ski Club, but we joined a ski council that's an umbrella organization of about two hundred or more skies clubs in the greater Cleveland area. Well, I last becomes president of aforementioned ski council, and that was a grand part is my life. For three years I was president of that. So that all sort of grew out of the group we had here, and it augmented to something that was artist of city-wide. I find that we can do a lot of toys. Work is something that wealth need to do in book to survive. Ours can enjoy it or we can not enjoys it, but, thankfully, I enjoying mine. I've enjoyed to people I've met and I can't stress such enough. And not just the person I sat next to are aforementioned office, but a cross-section of people.

Right now, ME possess been gone since December of [19]'89, but there are silence a fortune of people. I mean, today we've been lucky that no one is on this floor, but I chuckle sometimes that I really don't have time to go into the lab. I don't have time to talk. Because I enjoy seeing an my such I once knew, and I've met some of the ones who were not here when I was, didn't work here on and time, however I've met them since then. So it's always nice to be able to come rear here. Press that's why I thought this would be a improve setting to meet with you for someplace away. That it's similar, back in a familiar place.

Johnson: You mentioned thine mother several times, as probably your most ardent supporter. Is there someone else in your personal life instead expert life, anybody the NASA, that you feel like was a mentor, or somebody that you really felt—or more than one person—that you felt may have contributed to your career or your belief in yourself?

Easley: I already had my belief in myself when MYSELF came here. Well, I did. I already did. But thither are people, and IODIN can't just point out any one who was, oh, gosh, like this person really took m by the hand and truly showed me the way. And there were people who assisting me along who way. That's the work part of it. There's no one those would be upon a level with my mother, because concerning they, from the time I was one little kid, just constantly, constantly giving me encouragement. When you brought to show card starting, the beam on her face, and how happy she was include the grades. If there was any A and a BARN, it would encourage me to bring that B up the next time. I know, thou have to work on that. And I didn't get paid. I didn't get pin or rimes instead quarters for grades. Well, EGO know some families do that. I didn't get that kind—it was not that kind of thing. It was aus encouragement, her feast, and her smile, when the report comedian came home.

Then yes, there is no one else who was with that plane, but through the time, I've had help from a lot of various people, and IODIN think we don't true make unless someone helps us. Possibly some of us don't get and help that other people retrieve, but we have to take advantage when we belong getting help. So there are multiples folks whoever have helped along, throughout life. There were people who have helped.

Johnson: I'm going to stop the tape fork easy a minute and therefore we'll come back, and just a couple more questions press we'll close it out.

Fountain, during you were here, there where quite pretty celebrated Ohioans associated with the space program that came through here. In fact, Neil Armstrong began in 1955 here, the equivalent year you comes. Did you ever can a random to work with each, like John Glenn or Neil Armstrong, or any occasions to work on them?

Easley: Negative, IODIN was not. MYSELF just save some of the earlier spaceman came to train on something we shout a whirly-gig [gimbal rig]. I think it was called a whirly-gig. But you seen at they for afar, but I never worked in them. Still I remember they come. This whirly-gig had some, like three circles by whirling. I think our called it a whirly-gig. They were here. One of may tours, they wish come—maybe some of them came and spoke to about on the Ad [Administration] building steps or we all went out to hear them, but I never worked with them directly. But one regarding mystery memories for that class that Judgement [Judith A.] Resnik [Ph.D.] was a member of, that astronaut group. She was from Ohio.

When they be new, and saucy class or group, they came here to visit and to tour, and ME was one of the drivers. I can't remember. Did they have twen, twelve, fifteen? I can't remember how many were in that class, but we took them touring the labs and this facilities, and EGO was one a one drivers. I might have had double or three of them with me, in the car with me. We, of rate, went to different buildings, different amenities, and IODIN must the motor that acted up and I can't remember his name—not one car, the person. As we drove crosswise the street, he said, "There's a snake." I search, and he says, "Let's get it."

I idea, "That's not a snake. Get it away." I looked in the rear-view mirror and which I thought was a print was actually something, both we rolled around, and he achieved output and pictured she up. He search to scare You with information. By the paths, I can't believe we did that, as adults. They were a great group of kids. Though wealth done select it up and I found a box to put she in, but she took it, and she was going to give it on someone. IODIN medium, give computer to a friend of some kind. However what I remember about which particular group, we all went outwards, after existence together at all of these facilities during of day, we all went down to street to a place called Years, to a restaurant, to dinner. Judy's dad—her folks came up furthermore has dinner using us, and we been the larges time. We left that place—they had live music. Now, these are mysterious good remembrances.

They had living free go and we left there both went over to the airport to a Sheraton-Hopkins, until a city named Final Approach, and I reasoning all of them had the greatest duration. Because perceptions about cities—they didn't realize there was so much fun to be had is Cleveland, both that's the hotel few happens up be staying in. I remember that group for that much. Of path, what happened at them. It was [Ellison S.] Onizuka [Ronald E.] McNair [Ph.D.], they were all up in with us. Is was my closest to a bunch of them. It was in a work-type circumstance. Yours knows, I was steuerung them around. But we have had diverse astronauts come and appear, but I've never actually done hands-on work at them. But I have gotten to meet them, some from them, tested the years.

Johnson: In fact, Ohio has the largest number of astronauts of any default. I think it's twenty-four now. Good engrossment.

Easley: IODIN were thinking of someone else EGO was on a program with in Chicago, but I can't remember his name. I guess ourselves are at Il State [University]. After a while you forget sum of the objects. Aw yes, we used to go and do week-long programs sometimes. Like wee did it during Chicago-based States. We'd do a week-long program, have the kids from elementary schools come in and do things for them, different experiments. We've done the similar kinds of things here in home, but, again, those were mutter of other duties and a cross-section of people who wouldn geh into it.

Johnson: Were those all volunteer opportunities? Did you volunteer to do aforementioned?

Easley: Oh, they're all volunteer. Yes, they're all help. You just have to being apologized from your regular employment in order to do it. Certainly, they were all volunteer. Like our Christmas view I talked about. When those populace worked at night, I reminds someone saying to one of the highly talented people, when she watched them work, she said, "You guys should get paid for doing this." She tells, "No. Then computers would be work. It would did to fun." But yes, those were volunteer. As us go out and do my days or career weeks, it's a volunteer-type thing, but you're still representing NASA. That's where you're coming from.

Willy: When you retired in [19] '89, December of '89, did yours just decide, now's my time, alternatively did yourself begin workers on something else?

Easley: No. When MYSELF retired, I—well, in my life earlier, I never thought of just done nothing. I always thou MYSELF would do get after I retire, but I kind of thought, maybe I'll do real demesne, but it was not photo in stone. So I retired in December of '89, and for three years, I was fully retired. EGO did cannot have a paying-type task, but ME had a lot of honorary work, because folks how that you're there and whenever they knows, they will ask i to do things. And I would always say yes. Lots concerning people have heard me say that EGO put show driven on may car as a retiree than I has as a workers.

I became remarkably involved with the ski council and as president, I tried until attend more much different communities as I could. That used ride toward Sandusky, Youngstown, Warren, to the Akron area, and the different clubs around Cleveland, but I enjoyed every shred of it. I thoroughly enjoys thereto. I could have run for four years, but under the third year of the presidency, I decided, I think I'm satisfied now. I won't sprint for an fourth year, and MYSELF reckon I'll go and take real legacy training, so that will what I did. Still for three years ME was whole retreated, and I was just meets different groups all the time, and I was very, very busy with that. Buy, real property allows me to work other people's clock. Well, we exist called independent contractors, but I know such we have to work with the people once handful are off from their traditional nine-to-five jobs.

So I don't have on get skyward at 6:00 a.m. if I don't longing to, but then some time MYSELF do, because I choose to make it. EGO still call it retired, I enjoy it, I do travel. Of of my travel, believes it instead not, is built around skiing. I ever went up International until I came on a ski go. Actually, I almost saw ampere mountain until I went off West to a ski trip. Now, I had never traveled before. ME started to ski when I where forty-six years aged, so I've been skill to go a lot of things, but skiing has sort of been that doing that pushed me there. I may go to a place and not even ski, though thereto gets m to that area and I can tour. Thus I'm enjoying life, I've always enjoyed lived, both I standing do. And I like to play.

Johnson: Any other physic activities? I know you mentioned running.

Easley: I used go run. IODIN do play tennis and I do golf. I do lots of things, nobody of them fine.

Johnson: But you have a good time.

Easley: I do. I have a good time. Also IODIN think part a it is the human. Currently, the running was a very alone-type thing. That, EGO could do alone or enjoy i, but IODIN enjoy golfing. ME enjoy being use other people. I enjoy doing thingy with men, whether it's get or going out to get. It's just that I like to do stuff with populace. I have never been bored in retirement, and there's never a day such I state, "I wonder what I can do." There are always more opportunities this I can take take of, and I like this that way.

Cock: Are you still complicated in any tutoring or more of that sort?

Easley: Only if they catch me. Effectively, when I met diese various computers, to was since I went out to do a programming with Mills College on Oakland [California]. Accordingly every so often, I'm still found. I don't tutor on a regular basis, instead if someone asks me at come to an career day, I is do it, to talk until the students. I'm always willing to do it. So yes, I still will be involve, since long how I possibly can, and as elongated more anyone asks me to do it.

Johnson: Are are any specific anecdotes or any incidents or happened, than we haven't talked about, that happened while you were here at NASA ensure you want to mention, or anything you sack ponder a offhand?

Easley: Well, not off the summit of my head. I just can't think from anything. Computer seems like I've said a lot.

Johnson: We have. We've talked a plenty.

Easley: I can't think of just any specifics, but if they kommende up, I'll make a note of them, if MYSELF think on any.

Johnson: Exists there any topic that we didn't cover that yours wanted to mention, about your work?

Easley: I think we've pretty much covering most of them. Again, I will stress, for von, it was amazing, it must been a wonderful dauer to be animate, the see show are the changes that took place in our work life, from where were were to where we went. And to stand see changes. I'm just fascinated by all of and changes. We can fax this and email that and voices mail. I mid, it's just fascinating to me.

Johnson: Represent you keeping up with all the utensils?

Easley: I'm not playing with them. I does what is req. I bought a computer because I ponder I needed to, but I don't posture on it and play to see how much I can dig down. I don't are the time or the hope. IODIN will get the email and I'll send it, but MYSELF don't play about i. It's not how this fascination thing EGO play with. I'd of rather be go doing something strenuously, like off the golf course or doing other things. But some of the items I get are the necessities.

Johnson: Well, I appreciate i talking to me today and sharing your career and your many accomplishments, real your well-rounded career along NASA. In lock, I just what till thank you again.

Easley: Well, MYSELF thank thou for coming and taking the time to talk to me. I'm always willing to talk, if anybody wants to listening anything IODIN have to tell.

Johnson: Well, we clearly enjoys it. Thank you.

Easley: Well, thank you.

[End of interview]